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Post by Stas on Mar 19, 2014 14:38:31 GMT -5
Well, friends, I really like our talk.
As for law, national or international, there is an conflict of 2 norms 1. right of nation to self-determination 2. constant borders of state
So, if one part of some state wants to be separate, what to do : do they have the right to be free and to get separate or would they stay on in the same sovereign state? In Kosovo EC decided that it should be separate-Serbs resisted but they were bombed down for three months by NATO without UN approval.
From the point of law- the revolt in Kiev is unconstitutional and the head of Ukraina is still Yanukovich -but in fact he has no power in Ukraine. So Constitution does not act in Ukraina now. There is no legal law, no legal power. Russia has no treaties with current power in Kiev.
Of cause, it would be very positive to negotiate but the starting point is that human rights of a Russian population are to be guaranted in Ukraine as previously.
Well, Zoltan, I agree, Hungarians have the right to protect their relatives and the lands of their traditional settlements. Though conflict it's strongly non-desirable, it's the least desirable event.
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Post by pzoltan on Mar 19, 2014 15:03:10 GMT -5
The thing is that Ukraine is not Russia anymore. It is an independent country. So you think Russia has every right to invade to Finland because Finland has belonged to Russia years ago? What Russia has done is against international laws. This is the fact. Russia is not above laws. Then again this is not the first time Russia has invaded into neighbour countries. BTW, Russia has war rehearsals near Finland and Estonia at the moment. Again, is Finland inhabited by Russians in a more than 2/3 rate? NO. Is East and South Ukraine inhabited by Russians in 2/3 rate? YES. I don't see the problem. Russia wants back Russia, and most importantly, RUSSIANS want to be the part Russia AGAIN. Stas: I support the peaceful way of things. Since there was a putsch in Ukraine, and extremists got the power - supported by the "West" - not just the Russians and Hungarians, but also other minorites are in danger now. I hate to say this, but Romania should get Bukovina, Hungary Transcarpathia (only the Hungarian lands of course, that would be the justiceful). Ukraine can be independent, within it's ethnical borders. As I see, this is not a fight between Russia and Ukraine, but between West and East. In the last years, the USA, the NATO and Israel threatened countries which have Russian influence. Ukraine is a victim of all this, like Syria.
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Post by Stas on Mar 19, 2014 23:50:36 GMT -5
+1, Zoltan. There are many Polishes in nearby to Poland regions as well. That's why the situation in this multi-national land should be solved very carefully to avoid unrest. . In the picture wee see guys in masks sitting in prosecutor's office of Ternopol region. For me the desirable way is that Kiev act in a legal way-to give all the rights to all the nations with their languages and to come to legal law. The current situation is that they try to " freeze" the status-quo: to establish visa-regime with Russia to control East Ukraina habited by Russians mostly. Probably the situation in these regions will be unstable. As budget is fastly falling down, Kiev doubles income tax. As Ukraine has big gas debt, it probably will ask Europe for gas or money donations. They try to stabilise budget but it's almost impossible without strong donor. If not to improve situation right now , Europe will meet millions of unemployed people in Ukraine.
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Post by John on Mar 20, 2014 10:12:58 GMT -5
keep going guys, i'm really enjoying this topic! i don't have anything to input or to add because i don't want to bring the discussion down with my ignorance or stupidity.
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Post by pzoltan on Mar 23, 2014 1:51:59 GMT -5
Interesting news. The NATO most probably prepares war against Russia. In the middle of the week a Dutch tank division arrived to Hungary for "millitary practice", we all know what it means. But not just in Hungay, in the Baltic states, Poland, and Romania as well. As I know American troops already arrived to the Baltic countries. Hungary must stay out of this!!!
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Post by Stas on Mar 23, 2014 4:25:17 GMT -5
Thanks for a feeling , Zoltan.
That American militarian looks like Obama undercover
As for the news, here is a video about anarchy in Kiev-
19/03 Kiev, Police can run but not hide
As for Krim , situation is stable - 18.000 troops of Ukraine army with all the military bases and ships joined Russain army, 2.000 left for Ukraine. Its good that people remain together- every one can change a side without fight.
New chief prosecutor of Krim watches the law over
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As for the situation in the East Ukraina situation is developing- the pressure rises but the pod is solid.
If Kiev will give human rights to East Ukraina situation will calm down. But they hardly can do it as they are leaders of nazi rebelion.
As I understand the activity of NATO they will try to keep East Ukrain as a part of Ukraina. Dutch tank division-probably their aim is to control the situation in Uzhgorod and Transcarpatia if Hungary will act on to organise a referendum there. People from Holland hardly want to fight in a strange land for strange purposes.
The fact is that the more they press on Russia and Ukraine , the more people support government in Russia and the more people in East and South of Ukraina want to be in Russia as a natural and real defence. They just devide Ukrain fast and forcibly just like if they wanted to do iton purpose.
And the other important thing is that international organisations lost "the key" to Russia. For instance Visa and Mastercard on Friday blocked the transactionws of plastic cards of 3 big banks- but the reaction was about to zero because in does not matter a lot. Moreover that showed Russian finance power the necessity to create national transfer system rapidly. And today Visa and mastercard "gave their apologise for the misunderstanding" and de-blocked the transactions. But their reputation is lost forever here as for me.
NATO could ruin neutral Lybia, but they are unable to get control over Syria- the ally of Iran, Russia and China. Thats why the direct war conflict between NATO, USA and Russia is impossible.
The situation in 08/08/08 was much more dramatical- NATO prepared for war for several years, it made really technically good Georgian army by Saakashvily which was ready to shoot to kill their Osetian and Abhasian neigbours. This army had modern weapons : modernised tanks, anti-plane rocket systems etc. And this army attacked South Osetia and at the same time tried to block the only tonnel leadind to Russia to prevent Russian army getting into South Osetia. But this army was severely crushed by local people and Russian army though losses were high.
Big Ukraina in the centre of Europe is a place where all countries are to be very carefull. Hope God will give everybody sence and mind to see the situation through peacefully.
The film about a war in South Osetia- "In August of 8"-
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Post by Stas on Apr 9, 2014 6:06:52 GMT -5
UDO gave gigs in Donetsk and Lugansk recently- Now it would be impossible - BTW several dozens of Greystone ( ex-Blackwater) troops are there as well.
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Post by Stas on Apr 16, 2014 14:21:40 GMT -5
Though there are some wounded men and probably a few dead , in general situation seems to be positive. Ukrainian army and speznaz do not start fire , they join self-defense of East Ukraine or just return back. BTW 20 Greystone troops captured. The break of Ukraine seems to be reality now. By all means it's great that people stay peacefull in general.
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Post by pzoltan on Apr 18, 2014 12:47:30 GMT -5
I have heard the news. The Russian people has my sympathy and support, if they want to be Russia again, let them be. In the meanwhie, Transcarpathia should return to Hungary. It is our big chance.
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Post by Stas on Apr 24, 2014 4:32:51 GMT -5
Looks like hot faze of Civil war started : Ukrainian forces broke the local-self defense block-post and now are storming the centre of little city of Slaviansk. Several armors units are burnt , several people dead.
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Post by John on Apr 24, 2014 9:53:00 GMT -5
Keep writing here. I'm only staying silent because it's very interesting and I don't want to ruin the conversation.
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Post by Stas on Apr 24, 2014 10:52:09 GMT -5
Ye, it's just a sound of a silent cry As for the current news , Slaviansk is inder control of self-defense who are mostly pro-Russian. Ukrainian troops left city , losses are several dead from both sides, though psychological gap between them became galactical. From geopolitical point of view Ukraina is a geopolitical frontline of Europe, USA , China and Russia. In East Ukrain there are self-defense crews who are mostly pro-Europen. BTW we see the Ukrainian government headed by Biden during his visit to Kiev
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Post by Stas on Apr 24, 2014 11:47:49 GMT -5
More detailed pics from storm of Lugansk by Ukrainian troops- first success follwed by retriet. What can I say- may ne its hard to shoot civilians or may be they got string responce - time will tell.
So-
Ukrainian speznaz on BTR ( Battle Transporter)-
Another group blocks a road. They are supported by BMP ( Battle Machine of Infantry) , more heavy than BTR-
A member of local self-defence :
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Post by Stas on Apr 25, 2014 5:26:49 GMT -5
Ukrainian troops plan to blockade Slaviansk not to storm it right now- Self-defence crews are ready to protect - Sadly but the scenario develops in a negative way. Positive prediction is that world majors and Ukrainian army stay cool and aside and people in Ukraine will vote for free. Negative prediction is that peacekeepers from Europe, US and Russia enter Ukraine to protect population.
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Post by Stas on Apr 27, 2014 11:51:15 GMT -5
Ukrainian troopers blockading Slaviansk, a pair of BMD ( Battle Machine of Descent ) which is armored and maneuvering though not so big. Army got order to block but soldiers mostly don't wanna shoot. " looking in the eyes- My God, why Is it me-is You The one who has to die? Hold on , my friend Could this be our end" Just as for situation on the matter, people still don't wanna shoot to kill. Graham Philips reports
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