Da new drummer

[John]

nope, schwarzmann said that he hadn't played on the albums after timebomb because kaufmann wanted to use the casio. you can read all about it here, from the very lips of SS himself!!

www.metal-rules.com/interviews/Helloween-July2004.htm

[desperateballs]

Wow man!! I've just spend some minutes reading that interview... OMG!! It must be truth; those words were from his mouth.

So the fact is... that he only recorded "Timebomb" and the rest of the albums were recorded by the f*cking "Casio-Raptor". He only says that "Timebomb" was recorded by him. Poor guy man

I don't know wht the hell he did not leave the b.a.n.d. some years before Sad history

Milani, it's supposed, he quitted the music business on his own... I've read it somewhere. Would it be truth?

F*ck man... what a history the stuff with Schwarzmann

[John]

yeah, that's pretty eye opening isn't it?!

[desperateballs]

Yep man... it is... just real sad

[John]

NOW you know why we're so angry sometimes! being lied to, then denying the lie and lying even more is not a good way to keep fans.

[desperateballs]

Yeah man... this stuff is really sad to me You can bet on it; it's sad

I could not believe that interview with Schwarzmann... but what the hell; that virus named S.Ka uf uf uf man is behind and it is not good to the b.a.n.d. Stefan S. told us the TRUTH

Hope he can open the ears & eyes and listen to the fans... for God's sake!!!

[Tomcat]

Read an interview with Udo not so long ago. It was in the Hungarian version of Metal Hammer Magazine and Udo was talking about Rev-Craptor. When he was asked about the machine-like drumsound he said they have never used drum machines in the studio... That's a f**king lie

[John]

and that's what pisses me off the most. if they are so embarrassed that they can't admit that they are using it, then why use it in the first place!??!?! d**n it!! we are paying to hear humans play music on the cd, not machines!!! if we wanted to listen to some no-talent douche put machines into music, we'd listen to rap!! whoa, i just saw something... is there any coincedence that "rap" is part of the rev-raptor title?!?! because of the machines?!

[psychdoc]

Jun 26, 2012 10:18:53 GMT -5 John said:

Solid
No Limits
Holy
Man And Machine
Thunderball
Mission No. X
Mastercutor
Dominator
Rev-Raptor

hate to burst your bubble! u.d.o. and k.a.u.f.m.a.n.n. in particular has been lying and trying to pull one over on us for many years now. putting out fake music done by machines. then when he gets called out on it, instead of looking at the source of the problem, the one who is lying and doing the falsehood, he blames the messengers... US! for spreading the word about his lies.

kinda like this...

King: bring in the messenger, i want to know how the war is going
Messenger: yes king, what can i do for you?
King: how is the war going?
Messenger: the war is not going good your majesty, we are losing most of our battles
King: kill that messenger and bring me one who will tell me good news!

Actually, if you recall the interview with Stefan S. where they go over this issue, Stefan said that "Timebomb" is the only album for which he is credited as the drummer for which he actually, physically played the drums on. He said that he did not actually play drums on "Mean Machine" or "Faceless World" although he's the credited drummer. I remember reading a review of "Faceless World" in the magazine "Metal Maniacs" back in 1990 when the album came out that was critical of the drum machine used, so Stefan S.'s interview confirms this.

Therefore, as far as we know, the only U.D.O. albums for which an actual human drummer played the drums are "Animal House" and "Timebomb".

Given what we've heard, what I actually would like to throw out there for everyone's consideration is perhaps that they programmed a drum machine for "Mean Machine" and "Faceless World", and possibly everything up to "Man and Machine", and since then, it's actually Stefan K. playing drums with a bad trigger program.

In that sense, Udo and Stefan could technically be honest when they reply to accusations that they are using a drum machine by saying it's nonsense and there is "a" drummer playing on the albums. It would also explain why despite a couple of drummers being credited as playing drums in the band over the last 12 years, the drum patterns and rhythms on all of the studio albums are exactly identical, which could only occur in 1 of 2 scenarios that I can see: 1) they are using a computer drum program; 2) the same drummer has actually been playing drums on all of the albums and they're using a trigger program for which the drums sound exactly the same on all of the albums.

The trigger thing is quite possible as John can attest to; my one gripe with Andy Sneap as a producer is that he uses the same triggers for almost every band he produces/mixes, which is why the drum sounds on the Accept albums sound the same to my ears as the drum sounds on the Hell album, "United Abominations" and "Endgame" from Megadeth, and Testament's "The Formation of d**nation," all produced by Andy (keep in mind that I'm talking about the sound of the drums, not the rhythms and patterns of the drumming; a quick listen to 30 seconds of any songs from any of those albums should make it obvious that the rhythms and patterns are completely different, indicating different drummers).

Now, some may say that it can't be Stefan K. because of his back problems, to which I would reply that his back problems would keep him from being the permanent drummer for the band, but not from recording drums over a day or 2 on the albums.

That's just my latest little conspiracy theory, anyways. Feel free to take a dump all over it if anyone wishes to.

[mika]

I just always wonder about Mean Machine...Stefan Kaufmann didn't have anything to do with the production, mixing or recording. It was Mark Dodson, who also mixed/produced some Metal Chruch albums. Mark Dodson did have something to do with Russian Roulette too.

[psychdoc]

Aug 18, 2012 12:22:58 GMT -5 mika said:

I just always wonder about Mean Machine...Stefan Kaufmann didn't have anything to do with the production, mixing or recording. It was Mark Dodson, who also mixed/produced some Metal Chruch albums. Mark Dodson did have something to do with Russian Roulette too.

I was listening to "Mean Machine" during my workout at the gym yesterday, and it seems fairly obvious to my ears that a drum machine was used. I still love the album, and I still love "Faceless World" (I actually prefer "Faceless World" to "Mean Machine" if I had to pick only one); the fact that a drum machine was used only slightly lessens my enjoyment of those albums. However, listen to "Mean Machine" and "Faceless World", and then listen to another album that came out around the same time where it's been acknowledged that a drum machine was used (e.g., King Diamond's "The Eye"; another great album IMO) and you can see that it's fairly obvious in comparison to an album where an actual drummer is playing.

I'm familiar with Mark Dodson's work, but a drum machine is a drum machine.

Over the last decade, as triggers have become commonplace and more sophisticated, it's not as easy to tell the difference between an actual drummer playing with a trigger program vs. a computer program doing everything programmed by someone.

When triggers weren't as sophisticated, it was more obvious. A perfect example of an excellent drummer who actually played on an album but bad triggers were used making the drums sound almost like a drum machine can be found on Dream Theater's classic second album, "Images And Words." Former drummer Mike Portnoy has said numerous times that the producer, David Prater, and he almost came to blows over the triggers, and Dream Theater re-released 3 songs from that album on their "Greatest Hit" anthology 6 years ago without the triggers (much better to my ears).

A more recent example of what I am talking about where it's not so easy to tell is Iced Earth/Demons & Wizards (the Jon Schaffer/Hansi Kursch collaboration). If you listen to the last 3 Iced Earth studio releases as well as the last Demons & Wizards album, the drums have a thin, weak, tinny sound that is typical of computer programmed tracker drums (to my ears). However, they could also have been played by a drummer with a bad trigger program used in post-production. I like Iced Earth, so I don't have any particular reason to dump on Jon Schaffer's music.

Of course, another option to the 2 I proposed for the drums on the last decade of U.D.O. albums is that Lorenzo and Francesco have played the drums on the albums and then Stefan K. used a trigger program in post-production with the reason for the drum rhythms and patterns being exactly the same is that Stefan K. laid out the charts for the drums and enforced a strict, no deviation from the script, policy for the drummers.

I think this 3rd option is the least likely because it is just too difficult for 2 drummers to have the exact, to-a-tee rhythmic timing and pattern for fills, etc. Just try to do anything that requires syncopation and rhythmic timing to an exact degree with someone else. That's what makes the synchronized diving some of the most demanding events in the Summer Olympics.

Of course, this is all just my 2 cents.

[mika]

I was just thinking were drum computer used on Metal Chruch - The Dark album?

[John]

but doc, i don't think it's stefan k. playing on the albums because the style of the drums is nothing like the real playing the he did on the Accept albums. so it's just a drum machine. a computer. plane and simple. it's a total fraud. we don't buy albums to listen to computers. we buy albums to listen to the creativity of the human spirit and soul. the drum machine is just big load of sh*t and it's a shame that Udo has been talked into doing this by a complete fraud and lazy a$$ phony of a "producer".

[mika]

^Hey, John, you know the Metal Church The Dark album: does it have a drum computer? If it doesn't, I wonder why Mark Dodson wanted computer drums on Mean Machine. Mark Dodson produced the mixing for Russian Roulette also. On that album you can hear the UDO trademark the strange cymbal sound *cosh*.

[John]

i'll have to take a listen to it. i don't have the metal church here at home. i think i have it work.